“Curse GOD and DIE”

I listened as someone voiced their frustration and disappointment regarding God and their relationship with God.  Questioning both the existence of God and especially God’s care for them.  They mentioned they do not see eye to eye with God and expressed their anger at God.  They indicated how hard they have tried to seek God through prayer and reading the Bible and doing “everything right” and yet God is silent.  They are not happy with their situation and God does not seem available to help or give them a new or better situation.

Another person agreed and said how they cuss God out.  “People say it’s wrong”, he said, “but I do it anyway.”  Most everyone else was there to quickly lend support.  “It’s okay, God can take it”, I heard one man say.  “Think about David, and the Psalms, he complained to God.”  The question I’m asking, is not whether or not “God can take it” the question is, how should we respond? 

This is part of the topic and the question I raised in my previous post, “How To Comfort?”  The struggle is real, the questions or doubts are real, and the pain is real.  However, I am uncomfortable with the notion that we can and should talk to God how ever we want.  Sure, God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.  (Exodus 33:19)  Yet I still question if that kind of advise should be given?

It reminds me of the advise Job’s wife gave, “Curse God and Die” and the story of Job in general. In the context of the story she was literally telling him to give up.  The original challenge Satan gave was, “Does Job fear God for nothing?”.  Satan’s challenge was that if he was allowed to afflict Job, first by taking away his children and his possessions and then by taking his health, Job would curse God to his face.  (Job 1:11; 2:5)  Some make the assertion that Job’s wife was encouraging suicide, which may be true, but in the context of the story the important part was what Job did and did not say.

But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

When Job’s three friends came along, the best thing they did in the bulk of the story was mourn and sit with him for seven days and seven nights without saying anything to him.  (Job 2:13)  I have heard that was a cultural sign of respect to not speak to Job until after Job had spoken to them to in effect ask for comfort.  Such a custom would not guarantee a correct response, as is evident in the story, but it would prevent a hasty response.  The rest of the book of Job, and the Bible for that matter, gives a great deal of importance to the words spoken.  Particularly when we put ourselves in the position of having the answer, or purporting to speak for God. 

I therefore contend that the Bible would clearly admonish us to take heed, be careful of the words we use in trying to comfort others and in how we speak to, and about God.

For More on Job and the Phrase "Curse God and Die"

Curse God and Die [Archive] — Rev. Ed Hird, Rector, St. Simon’s Anglican Church
Homily: Curse God and Die — Mark Rainey
Job's Wife - Bitter, Angry, and Wrong [Archive]

HOW TO COMFORT?

This topic has been somewhat on the back burner. When I started, Offend Me With Your Love, I was thinking about what it means to show love. Undoubtedly, I had in mind the ridiculous politically correct nonsense about everyone having a right not to be offended. Clearly, the goal is not to be offensive for the sake of being offensive. The goal is in some sense to take back what it really means to love from the narrow explanations. Of course, the inverse is true as well. What really constitutes hate? Both these terms either are applied too loosely or are too narrowly defined. The false, logically inconsistent, message says, “If it agrees with me or sounds nice it is love, if it disagrees with me or sounds harsh it is hate.”
Of course, Offend Me With Your Love came out of a much more personal place as well. I was going through the darkest time of my life and realized nobody loved me, at least not in a way I could really understand. I had an overwhelming desire to cut everyone out of my life and literally disappear myself permanently. The very few people in my life that cared about me would not say anything because they were afraid of offending me. This only reinforced the belief and the message, “go quietly; nobody cares.”
Who am I to say if they did the right thing or not? I am still here. I doubt ignoring a problem in the hopes that it goes away is a good general rule to live by. It may absolutely be the right answer to say nothing at times. I know I am a sinner and especially need tough love sometimes, although that is obviously not the answer in every situation either.  Paul writes,

“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God” (2 Corinthians 1:3-4, KJV).

The word Trouble is θλῖψις (Transliteration: thlipsis) from <G2346> (thlibo); pressure (literal or figurative) :- afflicted (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.¹
There is So Much Trouble in the World. It would be great to know how to give comfort. Yet we have to be honest with ourselves as believers in Y’shua *(JESUS). When non-believers look at the church and its message, they are confused. We meddle in the affairs of others outside the church without really setting our own household in order. Obviously, we should start at the household of God. How are we to comfort each other?
In upcoming posts, I will talk about some specific situations and questions I have come to in my everyday life and through reading other’s blogs. In the meantime, check out the very interesting site Net-burst.Net [current] [Archive] for many articles of encouragement on a wide range of topics.

1 James Strong, Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary, (Austin, TX: WORDsearch Corp., 2007), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, Under: "2347".

Both Sides of the Coin –The Problem of Believing in Miracles

I stumbled across this video today - Jesus Culture: Mickey Mouse Miracles are no Miracles at all- (beginning at 15:43).  The first part of the video I did not find particularly special, however I did have a deep emotional response to the Will Gray Video.  I mourn along with Angie, Will’s widow, and feel a tremendous amount of empathy for the pain she has experienced.   In case it is not apparent from the title of the video, Bezel333 is contrasting the sickness and subsequent death of Will Gray with the inconsequential miracles of healing allegedly coming out of Jesus Culture.

As far as miracles and the supernatural are concerned I always wonder about Jesus’ apparent lack of patience in the story of the demon-possessed child when he was told his disciples failed to cast out the demon. (Matthew 17:16-17; Mark 9:18; Luke 9:40)  Is Jesus really frustrated because his disciples could not cast out a demon?  I hope to understand exactly what is going on here.  One point Jesus makes and is particularly highlighted in Luke’s account is about how he would soon be betrayed.  (Luke 9:43,44)  Yet in the other two accounts the disciples ask him privately why they could not cast it out.  They are told it is because of their unbelief in Matthew’s account in addition to the need for prayer and or fasting also mentioned in Marks account. (Matthew 17:20,21; Mark 9:28,29)

Elsewhere Bezel333 mentions how the miracles are inconsequential compared to the ones we read about in the New Testament Scriptures.  However, to be fair most of the healings Jesus and his disciples performed were inconsequential to the writers of the New Testament Gospels.  By this I mean very few were actually detailed, the rest were mentioned only in passing. 

That being said, I sympathize with the overall point Bezel333 is making.  I have had contact with people associated with Bethel's School of Supernatural Ministry and International House of Prayer.  I have personally been troubled in the presence of “glory-tunnels”, guided visions, uncontrolled laughter for no apparent reason, and inconsequential so-called miracles of healing.   In fact this reminded me of a book review I wrote in 2011 related to this topic. 

Free-Falling by Chuck Parry
My rating: 4 of 5 stars

An Interesting read. Some incredible stories to ponder! Free-Falling is painfully optimistic. Surely in keeping with an intended purpose for the book, to highlight the miraculous wonderful aspects of a life lived following Jesus, Chuck seems to have it so easy. It is as if Chuck is always in the right place at the right time. Painful for someone such as myself that rarely experiences this. Feeling as if I'm usually at the wrong place at the wrong time and things don't seem to work out well. I believe in the miraculous and I want to have a real faith that God is in charge and believe for Him to come through and be magnified. However, there is also a lot to be said for the struggles, the hurts or pains, disappointments, tribulation, and persecution of a life lived following Jesus. Being able to bear it without giving up or completely losing heart is ever bit as miraculous as the "good" experiences we encounter. I think me not having a firm grasp on both sides of the coin has caused me to lose heart many times which in turn caused me to backslide or try to satisfy myself outside of God's will. Therefore, I am jealous that my story doesn't read as a continual tale from glory to glory to glory.

That being said, I was present for many of the events detailed in Free-Falling, regarding the Rainbow Gathering. I can attest to witnessing several of the events described. My take on a couple of these events was very different, however. Particularly, the 2009 New Mexico gathering (pg 185-189). I was there for the worship circle and saw John after he was healed. I was even there when someone else videotaped him testifying about the healing. (I asked them to send me a copy but they never did). All that seemed really awesome however I was deeply troubled in my spirit with the events involving Jason. I was impressed by his personality, I believe he is one of those "prophetic ministry type" coming out of Kansas City perhaps. Nevertheless, I felt a deep troubling unrest when he led a "guided vision" tour of heaven (pg 189) Of course it was one of those times that I wondered what was wrong with me since all these other Christians there were on board with this. However, I have since found out that I am not alone in this. It is seen by other Christians as not a legitimate Christian practice and is instead regarded as straight from esoteric (occult) or "New Age" practices. The other thing that really bothered me was Jason's "leg lengthening" practice. This had all the appearance and reality of a cheap parlor trick. The way Jason held the legs, it was an optical illusion. I don't know why the Living God would resort to such ridiculous manifestations.

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“Hey Don’t You Know You Offended Those Guys?” (and the Syrophenician Woman)

Being Right Doesn't Always Mean You're Right — Cry of the Indigo Bunting: Finding God in the Everyday :
This sermon was preached on Sunday, September 9th, 2012 at St. Paul's Episcopal Church, DeKalb, Illinois.  The text was Mark 7:24-37 . ..

I read this sermon, about a week before Christmas, on Jesus encountering this Syrophenician Woman, as recorded in Mark's Gospel.  Although, Mark does focus on Jesus’ humanity, highlighting him as the ultimate servant, I am not convinced the conclusion drawn in this sermon is the reason Mark included this story.  By “conclusion” I mean the “big idea” of the passage, not the application of that idea.  Is it true that the “big idea” in this passage is that Jesus was wrong by what he said to the Syrophenician woman, regarding his primary mission?

But Jesus said unto her, "Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs." Mark 7:27 (KJV)

According to this article Jesus, the Syrophoenician Woman, and Little Dogs, one reason Jesus' comment is not as unkind as it first seems is because the words in Greek indicate a “little pet dog” which would have been cared for, as opposed to a mangy uncared for dog. 

A three year old mixed breed Border Collie.

A feral street dog photographed on the main road of the city of Gianyar, Bali, Indonesia.

That may well be, or this may be a bit of a cop-out (I don’t speak Greek), but either way I am not so quick to presume Jesus was wrong.  I have thought about this for weeks.  Neither Mark nor Matthew, who also recorded this encounter (Matthew 15:27), indicate that Jesus was wrong.  Interesting enough, just prior to this story in Matthew’s account, Jesus quotes Isaiah, calling the Pharisees hypocrites, “honoring God with their lips but their hearts are from him.”  It is “what comes out of a man which defiles him.”  Jesus’ disciples come up to Jesus and basically say, “Hey don’t you know you offended those guys?”  It was of no concern to Jesus (outwardly).  “What God has not planted will be rooted up.” (Matthew 15:12-14)    Furthermore, Matthew not only indicates that the disciples were present during this encounter with the Syrophoenician woman, he also further highlights that Jesus told them the primary purpose for his proverbial statement. (15:24)  As this "little dogs" article points out, Jesus was consistent about being sent to the “lost sheep of Israel” first.  (“Lost sheep” could be construed as less then flattering as well)

Nevertheless, it seems to be a fallacy to assume because a statement is “not nice” it is not “Christ-like”.  This presupposes that being “Christ-like” is equivalent to being nice according to ones own understanding.  Of course love is “patient and kind” (1 Corinthians 13:4-6) but it doesn’t necessarily “make nice” according to the way those that don’t have the mind of Christ “make nice”.  For it “rejoices not in iniquity but rejoices in the truth".  And the truth hurts sometimes.  Those of us that don’t have the mind of Christ on a matter, would rather compromise the truth in order to “make nice”.  Christ Jesus never did this.

Even John the baptist called the people that came out to be baptised by him a “brood of Vipers”. (e.g. Luke 3:7)  John of course was highly praised by Jesus (Matthew 11:9-12)

There are many examples where Christ seemed impatient and his comments could be construed as unkind.  Examples such as calling very religious men “whitewashed tombs”. (e.g. Matthew 23:27-28)  Or saying to his good friend Peter, “Get behind me Satan”. (e.g. Mark 8:33)  Peter surely didn’t mean to talk for Satan, perhaps he thought he was showing concern for Jesus’ well being.  Notwithstanding, it was Satan who told Jesus he could have the world without going to the cross.(Matthew 4:8-9)

When one takes the story of how Jesus responded to offending the Pharisees and the story of how he supposedly offended the Syrophoenician woman, coupled together it highlights the contrasting ways God is approached or blessings ascertained.  Just as in the parable (Luke 18:9-13), the religious way says, “we are not like these other men, we wash our hands and bowels before we eat”, and the sinner that admits their low condition and simply asks for mercy, “let me have a crumb that falls off the table”.  “For everyone that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”

How do you suppose Jesus would have responded if instead of saying, “truth Lord”, she took offense at his saying?